As you can see most ancient art tend to exaggerate the traits of what it represents, especially in what they are interested about it. For example, animals with tusks were drawn with them abnormally large in a lot of cases. So most people had the hypothesis that this old fat art of Venuses is just like that, an exaggeration of everything ancient man liked about women, the big breasts, big ass and a powerful belly. They adored those parts so they translated that into art to show their ideal for a women. I don't think it's about an actual woman, more so an ideolized version of it. So yeah more than feederists they were fat lovers, because as you said it represented power, wealth, comfortability, maternity and submission.

>>4625 But note the care and detail that has gone into its design. There are details which would be unusual to find on someone who isn't seriously fat; neck fat, back and neck rolls. It doesn't look at all exaggerated compared to the women you see on /ssbbw/. Whereas other statues from other areas are clear exaggerations, i.e. not really anatomically correct. Although today we are well aware of how fat distributes around a very heavy woman, how could someone from the Neolithic era understand this distribution well enough without seeing it in person. To me it suggests that there were women in this society who were significantly well fed enough to provide the creator with sufficient reference.

>>4628 Consider the possibility that the societies before written history were far more advanced than current archaeology would suggest. If we hadn't tapped into coal reserves in the 17th century, and society had suddenly collapsed from any number of common causes (agricultural failure, invaders, a plague, etc.) what would be left over? Structures made of brick, stone blocks and cobblestones would be torn apart to use the blocks for fences and regular people's homes. The only reason we can study the Egyptian pyramids is because most of them were buried, and those that weren't had stones so huge they couldn't be easily scavenged. Wood carts, wood buildings and wood handled tools rot within decades, glass is ultimately just a mineral and would return to the earth soon enough, even metal eventually rusts and becomes just a small iron deposit close to the surface of the earth. In a few thousand years of letting the elements have their way, you could take a bustling Renaissance-era city with global maritime trade, roads, statues and monuments and reduce it to wild forest. Is it so hard to believe that perhaps those cave-dwelling neolithics might have had a civilization prosperous and decadent enough to allow people to get fat easily?

I'm not sure about that, this new figure looks like another representation of the Anatolian "Mother Goddess," the only difference is that she's standing up. If you take away the clear symbols of the goddess, her mastery over animals and the fact that she's giving birth in the most famous statuette it's just another fat woman, but I think that the representative theory brought up >>4625 With most "conventional" Venuses I think they're pretty obvious fertility icons. A lot of them even look like penises as well as fertile women.

>>4631 Exactly Grug. But common consensus seems to be that no-one could've been that fat and that these statues are just exaggerated fertility goddesses. >>4632 Definitely fertility icons. But note the anatomical details of the seated Mother Goddess (which is also from the same site). She has knee rolls, fat arms, neck and arm rolls. I find it believable that it could've been modelled on a real woman/women.

This is definitely a subject I’ve been fascinated with for a while. Motifs associated with the seemingly gynocentric pre-Aryan religions and cults of the Old World appear to go back far into the Paleolithic, and seem to have been contanstant or recurring until fairly recently in greater historical consideration. Early agricultural regions in the Balkans and Anatolia appear to have served as epicentres for the cultures that produced this kind of art, but what I’m really fascinated in is the comparatively young civilization on Malta. Malta possesses a history of advanced agrarian and architecturally-competent culture going back to at least the 6th millennium BC, with a great flourishing of art and construction appearing to have happened about a millennium prior to the onset of the Bronze Age. IMO the Maltese clearly had the best fat ladies. I think ultimately “Venus figures” not just of Malta, were meant to represent fat women more often than pregnant women, although they were likely depicted as well and I’m sure there was overlap between the two categories. I believe it’s possible that these ancient cultures subscribed to a form of religion that had to do with astrology and agriculture, ever seeking the blessings of abundance-goddesses as too expand and nourish their ever-growing farms and settlements. Something really interesting I’ve considered is that the infamous cult of Adaphagia on Sicily was the last remnant of this ancient spirituality that seeped into the world of classical antiquity when the Greeks colonized the region.

Additionally fat lady that clearly isn’t supposed to be pregnant.

>>5135 Did you bother reading what was previously discussed?

>>5135 >CE well that's a good sign I can throw that entire argument in the trash

>>5135 Why in the flaming fuck did you type that in Impact, rather than a simple, easy to digest greentext/copypasta?

It always puzzles me that people assume humans had a hard life in the stone age... What evidence do you have for that? Aren't you just assuming things? Just look at those stone figures! They're seriously accurate representations of overweight women. No one could come up with such a level of accuracy without seeing someone like that first hand. Sure you can read stuff like this: > Other doctors have argued that it was highly unlikely that Paleolithic people could get fat - food was too scarce, life too demanding and besides, most did not live long enough to get the middle age spread. But you'll find that this is bullshit as soon as you look into the actual research. For instance, yes, average lifespan used to be 33 years, but that's due to early child deaths. If you survived until 15, life expectancy was 54 years (...without vaccines, chirurgy, etc.). Humans might be much more knowledgeable today, but our ancestors were often about as smart as modern humans. As such, considering that my wife sends me nudes when I'm traveling, it isn't actually far stretched to imagine that women of the stone age made equivalent nudes for their lovers during their travel. Of course nowadays the prevalent interpretation is that they're figures of a fertility goddess, but the one who came up with that interpretation (Helen Benigni) might not exactly be familiar with this fetish... That the idea of a "fertility goddess" might be wrong is supported by various papers. For instance: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22001136/ > Only seven statues were in the state of advanced gravidity (pregnancy). The presence of such a small number of gravidity statuettes challenges the general view concerning Venus idols, namely, that they all represent female fertility. I mean you got to imagine what would happen if _you_ ended up in that time period and society would be (hypothetically) accepting of obese women. Again I don't think it's far stretched to imagine that you'd decorate your house in this case with (back then) "modern" fat-women-art. Or that your partner would tease you with such figurines. Here's a paper summing up my thoughts: http://www.hormones.gr/pdf/241-244.pdf

>>5701 >Other doctors have argued that it was highly unlikely that Paleolithic people could get fat - food was too scarce, life too demanding and besides, most did not live long enough to get the middle age spread. As I mentioned above a lot of the cultures that produced these weren’t stoned-age at all but rather fairly sophisticated Neolithic and Chalcolithic societies, their defining characteristic was literally that they had a food surplus due to adoption of farming. The long era before the Bronze Age was comparatively extremely peaceful and women obviously weren’t hunters or warriors on average so of course they would get fat if they were sedentary enough. I’d bet it was probably celebrated considering the context.

>>5135 Imagine being the incel to make this because fat girls wont fuck him

>>5701 This is extremely interesting thank you. It is refreshing to see people seriously considering that maybe these statues are just fat! It appears to me (as far as I can tell) that either researchers don't or are reluctant to consider that maybe there were actual fat women (and probably some men) in prehistory. Very much like the members of our dear fat forum, our instinct is to provide and cater for our women so much so that their bodies are evidence to the relaxed lives they lead. It may be that certain groups of people exhibited the same tendencies, as similar practices are still carried out now, such as leblouh. I would feel that a neolithic man would be keen to coming back home from a hard days farming or hunting, to the open arms of his enormous women, whose body and lifestyle is testimony to his proficiency as a provider, much the same as I.

Bump.

>>5135 I've seen this copy pasta before but if this is somehow the universal standard of beauty how do you explain Polynesians, and certain nationalities/tribes from Africa, notably the Mauritania who ACTIVELY force feed their daughters to make them more desirable to the men. Im not saying that the venus are definitely a depiction of fat women seen as a sex object, any more than it could be a woman's representation of being pregnant. But its asinine to assume that the supposed "classic" model of beauty is universal...

>>5701 >Humans might be much more knowledgeable today, but our ancestors were often about as smart as modern humans. You're one of the few other people other than myself who has said this. I've always ascertained that if you took a regular human from the stone age at a very young age and raised them in the modern world they wouldn't be too far different that the average person most of the times. We only seem smarter because we have centuries of information at our disposal.

>>5717 They're fat. The kooky meme by Professor Google above ("Professor Vibrate" lol) is highly selective (and self-contradicting, and subs Rembrandt for Rubens, among other crimes against intelligence) and left out many Bronze Age societies in the Mediterranean, Turkey, the Levant, and so on, not to mention periods in European history that don't suit his, uh, thesis. Fat women have been and are currently preferred by many societies throughout both northern and Sub-Saharan Africa and the Middle East, as they have been for centuries. Not to mention societal beauty standards and sexual preference are often somewhat at odds.

>>7310 It depends when you bring them back. If you brought them to the modern world as a young child, then yeah they can adapt. But the mind rapidly loses plasticity throughout the adolescent period and by adulthood it would be extremely difficult for them to adapt.

>>7309 I recently stumbled on a paper that discusses deliberate weight gain in Egypt and ties it back into earlier practices that likely originated in pre-Islamic times. A lot of it is dissecting primary sources, and there are some choice passages: "some of them (Cairo women) have adopted a blameworthy custom, which is that when a woman goes to bed after eating dinner and filling her belly, she takes with her to bed the pith of bread (lubāb al-ḫubz) that she crumbles up with a number of other things and swallows with water, since she cannot eat it because she is already so sated; sometimes she repeats that after some of the night has passed." "The pursuit of fatness (taʿāṭī al- siman) has [also] led to something deplorable and dreadful, which is that some of them eat human gall (marārat al-ādamī) because those of them who use it eat a lot and are rarely sated, and as a result grow fat, according to what [the women] claim." "Some of them become so large and fat that their arms cannot reach to clean the impurity that is upon [their private] parts because of the fatness of body that they have caused... she is able to retain someone to attend to that part of her and remove [the impurity] from her... A single slave girl may not suffice her, so she needs more." "some of them cannot stand in prayer; the same usually applies to bowing, so she prays sitting down" "a woman does that in order to increase her beauty (as she claims) and so that men will be pleased with her (yaġtabiṭu bihā), in contrast to a man, for whom it is ugly to be fat" "I heard about the women in our times when I was in Egypt in the year 700 [/1300-1301] that they fatten themselves up with the pith of bread until they are unable to stand; as a result of that their faces and bodies are affected by [indecipherable] to the point that one of them is unable to wash her vagina and anus, and requires the help of someone who exposes her private parts and cleans her after she relieves herself—we ask God to preserve us from all of that!" "In the sixteenth century, the Venetian physician Prospero Alpini reported at length on the techniques Egptian women used to increase their girth, believing that they would be more desirable to men the fleshier they were... He asserted that as a result one saw many very fat women there—interestingly, particularly among the Jewish women." The comment about Jewish women is interesting in light of the custom of leblouh mentioned in >>5717, which was practiced particularly in Tunisia. "The anthropologist Rebecca Popenoe has exhaustively discussed the pursuit of extreme fatness by women among the Azawagh Arabs of southern Niger. In this context, girls are (or were in the 1980s and 1990s, when Popenoe did her fieldwork) fattened before marriage through the forced daily consumption of milky porridge (and after puberty of couscous). A combination of systematic feeding and physical inactivity (which also inculcates an appropriately staid feminine demeanor) yields a body ideally displaying “pendulous upper arms, rolls of fat around the waist, a protruding behind, and thighs that together form one vast expanse.” Popenoe notes of one of her informants, whom she describes as “a paragon of Moor womanliness, ... full in body and demure in comportment,” that she could no longer stand to pray in the manner prescribed by Islamic law" "Visiting the same general region studied by Popenoe, Ibn Baṭṭūṭa admiringly described the Berber women of the Bardāma as “the most perfect of women in beauty, and the most remarkable in appearance, with radiant whiteness and fatness; I have never seen women in any country who have reached the same degree of fatness”. He continues to describe a fattening regimen involving milk and sorghum consumed every morning and evening." "“As for what exceeds satiety that does not lead to this, the correct opinion is that it is permissible because it is one of the things that perfects [sexual] pleasure (li-annahu min ikmāl al-mutʿa), which is permissible... Ibn Arafa here prioritizes the legitimate sexual enjoyment of men within marriage (implicitly understood as being enhanced by female fatness)" "the early Muslim governor of Iraq Muṣʿab ibn al-Zubayr as declaring that “Women are beds; the most pleasant of them are the best cushioned.”45 This maxim is followed by another saying attributed to an early Iraqi authority, the jurist Ibn Šubruma: “I have never seen a garment more becoming to a man than eloquence, and I have never seen a garment more becoming to a woman than fat (šaḥm).” "ʿĀ’iša (Prophet Mohammed's wife) was fattened up until she became stout enough to keep her from running" "Al-Tīǧānī continues with anecdotes about ʿAbda bint ʿAbd Allāh ibn Yazīd ibn Muʿāwiya, a member of the Umayyad house who was married to the caliph Hišām ibn ʿAbd al-Malik (reigned 105-125/724-743). Quoting from the eleventh-century scholar al-Bīrūnī, he recounts that “she was exceedingly fat and could not stand without the help of three or four slave girls.” In a rather cruel interaction, Hišām offers her a priceless pearl if she stands up unaided; she does so with great exertion only to fall on her face and bloody her nose, upon which he gives her the pearl. The anecdote itself has nothing to say about the aesthetic or erotic valence of ʿAbda’s bulk, but once again al-Tīǧānī creates an artful juxtaposition, following up with a passage from another source in which she is described as so dazzlingly beautiful that she enthralls a man who is otherwise uninterested in women. This passage does not mention her fatness, just as the first did not mention her allure; put together, however, they construct a picture of a woman who is irresistibly corpulent." >tfw no morbidly obese muslima gf with harem of slave girls "These stories are followed by one from the Kitāb al- aġānī about another woman of the Umayyad era, Hind, the daughter of Asmā’ ibn Ḫāriǧa. The scenario involves her engagement and marriage to al- Ḥaǧǧāǧ; she is described as being so fat that her black silk shawl gets caught between her buttocks and her back, and she cannot stand up straight because of her bulk... al-Ḥaǧǧāǧ is certainly depicted as being very eager to secure her hand and consummate the marriage; the description of his lavish marriage gift places this woman of size within an atmosphere of luxury and prestige." "ʿĀ’iša bint Ṭalḥa (the niece of the Prophet’s wife ʿĀ’iša) is described as needing two women help her to stand up. This is followed by a report in which a woman recounts how she visited ‘Ā’iša bint Ṭalḥa and mistakenly thought that there was another woman sitting behind her, so massive were her hindquarters." There's more, but you get the picture. tl;dr, some women in early and medieval Islamic societies would intentionally get fat, some of them to the point of immobility and needing slaves to help them stand or wash, and they were celebrated and considered beautiful for it by some. Something I found really interesting was how the article talks about discourse on fatness, apparently books were written discussing the attractions of both thin and fat women, some of them being biased towards fat women. Essentially, I think that attraction to different body types was understood to be a lot more nuanced than it is in contemporary Western societies. However, the article does talk about a lot of criticism towards the practice of intentional fattening, which leads me to think of it as a holdover practice from the pre-Islamic era that was tolerated and even celebrated for a time, before being suppressed for whatever reason (apart from holdouts that exist today like in Mauritania and Niger among others). Maybe there's some sort of biological imperative behind it as well, and that's something we feedists have retained from our ancestors? I'm not sure, but it's so interesting to think about. Here is the article if you're interested: https://journals.openedition.org/anisl/3059#ftn1 (save as pdf, easier to read)

>>7676 Amazing find. >In another passage, he notes that if a woman is portly (mubdina) she may refrain from fasting during Ramadan for fear of diminishing her girth; similarly, the parents of virgins may keep them from fasting, particularly if the girl in question is engaged and they fear that her size will decrease before the consummation of the marriage.

>>7678 I can't get enough of this article and the sources it cites, this is like the medieval Islamic equivalent of deathfeedism. >When you're so determined to become hugely fat that you risk Allah's wrath and an eternity of torment in the afterlife by skipping the Ramadan fast

>>7676 This is wilder than most fat fetish fictions. Thank you so much for finding this! Plenty of very interesting reading.

>>7676 more coom worthy material from this paper >a woman recounts how she visited ‘Ā’iša bint Ṭalḥa (one of Mohammed's wives) and mistakenly thought that there was another woman sitting behind her, so massive were her hindquarters There's just so much here it's extraordinary. I wonder how large some of these women were able to get. There are dozens of mentions of girls/women requiring two or more people just to move around.

>>7676 actually the niece of Mohammeds wife.

>>7686 the Prophet: very based

>>7676 This is very interesting! My theory is that it was beneficial for ancient tribes and civilizations to have some very fat women, as they would be more likely to survive on their fat stores during a period of extended famine. It wouldn't be advantageous for all women to be that fat, but if extra resources were sacrificed to fatten up a selected minority, they would perhaps act as a hail mary play for passing on genes in the event that food suddenly became scarce. Likewise, in order for those genes to get passed you'd need some men predisposed to being attracted to very fat women.

>>7676 I knew something like this existed but not to this extent, this is an incredible find. Really goes against of the narrative of "MUH UNIVERSAL BEAUTY STANDARDS" that people just love to spit out when ever you bring up that there could have been a time where fat women were preferred...

>>7686 >>7687 >Aisha bint Talha (Aisha daughter of Talha) >Talha, Muhammad's brother-in-law through his youngest wife, is hated by pious Shi'ites as one of the greatest traitors in the history of Islam >he betrayed Imam Ali, the true heir to the Prophet, during the Battle of the Camel in 656 AD >his daughter had a Boberry tier ass

>>7780 Could it be that Shiites just want a piece of that ass? >>7784 The fattest women and men in my area by far are Muslims. They seem to be on to something, maybe I should start thinking about converting...

>>7780 Muhammad is fucking disgusting. But Good Muslims, I don't mind.

Researchers determined that the only way these women were able to become obese was by regularly being fed mixtures of dried berries, nuts and honey, as they were the only high glycemic load carbohydrate foods necessary to produce insulin resistance at that time.

>>8249 Source? Sounds plausible to me but I'd like to see the original paper.

>>7780 Shi'ites BTFO, clearly Allah blessed Talha's lineage with Boberry genetics as a reward for switching teams to the true religion. Rock solid proof of Sunni supremacy if you ask me

>>8250 Google "Obesity in the Paleolithic: The Odd Case of the Venus Figurines"

>>7676 I am from Russia, i have some middle eastern relatives and they had retold their folklore sayings about seven stages of female fatness in wealthy families of old times. The first stage is when her womanhood and pubic pad is so plump and rounded, that when this woman stands naked, no hint of the beginning of her slit and of division of her pussy lips can be seen from the front, but only the plump rounded mass of her pubic pad, slightly hanging from under her belly. The second stage is when her belly itself is hanging down so much that it covers fully her womanhood and goes even further, like an apron. The third stage is when she can't reach her anus. The fourth stage is when she can't reach her feminine slit as well. The fifth stage is when she cant walk without strong help, but still can arise and stand up for a moment by herself.. The sixth stage is when she can't arise, stand and make several steps without strong help and can't walk even with help. The seventh stage is when a woman can't even get on her fours and move on her fours or crawl, and she is able only to turn from side to side on the spot, and needs help even with this. - Each level was accompanied by corresponding ways of lovemaking, hygiene and toiket needs accomplushment. All the levels were appreciated. I' ve found reflections of this ideas in several middle eastern folktales etc..

>>8450 Здравствуйте, Светлана. That's a very interesting post. I'm also partly from the Middle East just in America. While I can't recall my family ever telling folklore like that, those details and legends do match historical stuff I've read. Why did your family even tell about this though lol. The later stages are definitely hot, it's good to know people in ancient times could be as "messed up" as us haha.

>>8450 That sounds incredible. Is there any particular name for this and do you know specifically where it came from?

>>8457 My grandmother was from rural people of Azerbaijan, i meant this set of my relatives. So they retold traditions of some Azerbaijan turks and Iranians. They did it without any special goal, just in frames of usual communication and talking between family members and relatives. They perceived these things simply as part of past old goodvtimes, just as old manners of clothing, soultans, cavalry armies and other matters of the past mentioned in folklore too. They thought it ok, without any condemnation of being so fat, various degrees of fatness were taken as nice variants of feminine beauty. Women of any fatness in real life were taken as nice too, and this group of my relatives condemned those " new people in large towns " which want women to be slim and reject large and very large beaty. But the slim bodies were not condemnated too. As for these seven stages, i remember only one negative remark, and it was connected not with fatness itself, but with behaviour. It was the following remark: while some large women use(d) help only when its neccessary, other are/were too spoiled and like(d) pampering and use(d) help even while their " stage" of largeness doesnt / didnt demand it., e.g. they are / were cleaned and bathed and helped with toilet needs by their relatives and maids just for comfort, pleasure and fun, though they were still fully able to reach their nether parts and could well underwash and wipe themselves, but still liked to be helped with these and other things. My grandma used to say that this is utter lazyness and bad conduct, though some men like and liked their women so lazy snd spoiled, and some families liked to spoil their daughters for such a degree. So from her and others' words it was clear that some people condemned this way of life when the most intimate help was used without neccessity, and some people accepted and promoted this spoiling as pleasant luxury.

Long afterwards I saw the corresponding material in various middle eastern texts. For example, in Marion Katz paper and in one variant of six beautiful slave girls in Arabian Nights, there are described so large girls and women that they just can not reach their nether parts and thats why they use help with cleaning these parts. In some other tales and parallel variants there are described large women who are well able to reach their nether parts and to ckean themselves with their own hands but use all the same help just because they like to be pampered so much. The same is for discussion of poses and ways for toileting and love making. In such tales.

>>8464 >>8465 That's very fascinating. I have cousins who are Westernized in Lebanon for instance, they want to be thin and tan. While I know more distant family from more east/south where they still like women to be a bit soft and pale. There's certainly a split. Is your family big themselves, and are you? >For example, in Marion Katz paper and in one variant of six beautiful slave girls in Arabian Nights, there are described so large girls and women that they just can not reach their nether parts and thats why they use help with cleaning these parts That has to be at -least- like 200kg/420 pounds, wow. I wish we had more stories like this translated to English.

>>7784 Do not forget that "Fatima(h)" is a thing too, and was the name of one of Muhammad's daughters.

>>8468 You can see an example of the fascination with overspoiled fat women in a piece of Mughal art placed here in another board - https://bbw-chan.nl/bbwalt/res/14.html#q10745 (klick on the question mark to see; I warn for very explicit content, but this Middle Eastern attitude takes positively all bodily pleasures and satisfactions of fat ladies, in utterly physically-hedonistic way. It does not fully coincide, nevertheless, with strict scat or slob fetishes in modern sense of these words, there are many differences between them and that eastern approach, but there are some similar or common points too).

>>8468 >>8460 By the way In "The Book of Enlightenment on the Secrets of Marriage" (Kitab al-idah min asrar an-nikah) by Syrian ‘Abd al-Rahman Ibn ‘Abd Allah Ibn Nasr al-Sayzari (c. 1200 or 1300 AD) there is a chapter 6 named: "About drugs that make the body obese and fat". It begins witb words: "When a woman is fat, her opulence and the obesity of her body is the quality desired by man, he achieves pleasure in sexual union [with her], which the slim woman does not cause. In this chapter, medicines and fattening foods are presented - everything that makes the body fat if you use it, makes the flesh more massive, purifies (makes softer) color of the body, and as a result, the woman will enjoy the favor of her husband. There are two parts: Part one: about medicines and foods that fatten the body as a whole (...). Second part: on the fattening of some members of the body. When the woman wants to fatten any of her limbs like her vulva, her her butt, her hips, her legs, her wrists, or elsewhere, this will not come through from food or drink directly, but through absorption and retention of the nourishment in that member and the transformation of this in her own nature (...). Spanish translation of the whole work can be seen here: https://oldabundanttimes.freeforums.net/post/4 (third item)

>>8457 >>8460 >>8468 I can add two versions of one of the Eastern tales about fat and lazy spoiled women in English translation. Sorry for the English of this translation, its not mine and not professional, but its literal. There are obscenities there, but it is the erotic folklore of old, so do not wonder if it will be too excplicit. As far as I know It was printed in Russian among several other erotic folktales, in a book: Smutivshayasya Zubeida. Iz "osobennykh" skazok Vostoka [Zubaida in embarrassment. Some "special" folktales of the East], one of numerous curious little edtiions of nineties. I am afraid that the rules of this site make it better to post these texts in erotic literature section, not here, as tyhey are very explicit.

>>8486 That are them: https://bbw-chan.nl/elite/res/2358.html#q2556 https://bbw-chan.nl/elite/res/2358.html#q2557

So here's the standard work on the cultural history of fat women. It's in German, but profusely illustrated: Felix Leopold Wangen, Oskar Franz Scheuer: Das üppige Weib. Sexualleben und erotische Wirkung. Künstlerische und karikaturistische Darstellung der dicken Frau vom Urbeginn bis heute. (= Allmacht Weib. Erotische Typologie der Frau 1.) Wien / Leipzig: Verlag für Kulturforschung 1928; reprint Viola Press 1981. Have fun!

>>8535 Oh yes, it is a great book! Thank you for mentioning it!!! But it is dedicated most of all to Rubenesque women (BBWs, not SSBBWs) and their reflection in European art and Karikatur of Modern epoch. Only short passages are dedicated to the Prehistorik, Ancient and Oriental material and ssbbws, and main data on them was fully unknown in those times. For over a century chloars tried to prove that fat Venuses of Stone age and Bronxe Age are synbolical and grotesque images of fertility, and only in last decades it was noted that these images reproduce quite concrete types of obesity and obese bodies, and so they are erotic depictions of real women, based upon nature and these women were taken as beauties, these images could well have symbolic additional sense. but were not abstract symbolical fantasies.

Damn, this is all real interesting (and hot). Now i want a mod for Ck3 that lets me feed my wife as a Muslim.

Anyone find anything new about this? This is a really interesting (and erotic) topic

>>10554 It's so erotic that I wish I took a doctorate in Fatology. I don't have much apart from this: One of the most influential physicians from antiquity is Galen who lived between AD 129 and 216 within the Roman empire. In one of his many texts he had this to say about obesity which in Greek he termed "polisarkos" or "exceeding fat": “the body deviates towards obesity to such a point that the person cannot walk without sweating, cannot reach [when sitting at the table] because of the mass of their stomach, cannot breathe easily, cannot give birth, cannot clean themselves” I don't know about you but it seems Galen came across some serious fatties in his time.

>>10561 Damn, would love to live during his times if that were the truth

>>8535 Has anyone found a translation of this book online for free? If so can you send link?

So I kinda wanna make a disc dedicated to finding out more about feederism in history but isn’t advertising your disc server technically against the rules

>>7676 Ah ah, I was going to quote the exact same source. It's crazy to learn that the daughter of one of the most famed historical figures in History used to be an Egyptophile feedee whose cosmetic pursuits ended up making her becoming a nearly immobile obese woman. No wonder why she died at a very young age, though (wasn't she into her early thirties when she passed away?) . And indeed, it ties back to earlier practises that originated from Egypt in pre-Islamic times, with some heavy implications made by the researcher that it may even ties further back to cosmetic feeding and feminine fat cultivation among pastoral and sedentary populations of Northern Africa, the Sahara and sub-Saharan Africa (this practise still prevails to this day in Mauritania, a variety of rural Berber speaking communities in regions of the Maghreb far away from the coasts, amongst the Tuareg tribes scattered across the Sahelian band, and many sub-Saharan African countries) , prior it seemingly widespread as a popular cosmetic trend amongst Arabian women around the 6th to early 7th centuries. After the Islamic conquests and the settlement of Islamic Egypt as one of the four primary cultural centers of the Islamic world aside from Iraq, Damas and Al-Andalus (Spain) , it simply reinforced the popularity of this cosmetic practise, to the point that several Islamic male writers from the 9th century to the 19th century attempted to demonize the Egyptian practise as "haram" (impure) because of too many obesity epidemics amongst lower class Muslim women in Northern Africa, Egypt and Western Asia, who all desperately attempted to feed their way through physically debilitating levels of morbid obesity: from what the texts transpires, there simply has too many impoverished SSBBWs and USSBBWs in their countries. Too fat to drag themselves in and out the doors, too heavy to walk around casually or not developing lung diseases, their mobility too hindered to let them perform their daily and weekly religious ablutions, and too large to maintain a proper hygiene. It was the "Big Booty epidemic" a millennia prior its arrival, but in worse! https://journals.openedition.org/anisl/3059

>>5135 mmmm delicious /pol/ tears. so butthurt that a caveman somewhere sometime might've thought a fat chick was hot. even though just the fact that FAs exist today is evidence enough that it comes from a previous time anyway. them using much, MUCH later art from literal gay/pedo artists as evidence is just hilarious

i came up with a probably incorrect theory about this a while back. my theory is that these statues (at least some of them such as willendorf) were sculptures of real women, probably made as gifts. i've noticed that a lot of men into fat girls are ironically thin themselves which makes me think perhaps in caveman times that ectomorphic men who don't need much food instead used the majority of their food to feed their cavewives, and then would make sculptures of them either/both as gifts and as a more permanent way to show the fruits of their labor. i don't really have any direct evidence but just the fact that venus of willendorf has a very self-conscious pose (looking down on herself, hands on breasts, leg turned inward etc) most definitely doesn't seem to fit the confident presence of a goddess. almost like it was based on a real naked fat lady shyly posing as a model

>>11758 Could also be a self-portrait, no? Tits look fatter from the tit-haver's POV, presumably, and without a mirror it makes sense why the belly, etc would seem exaggerated

>>11781 already seen that theory and its dumb if you ask me. bitch could've just looked in a pond for her reflection. it seems like ideological cope from archeologists who don't want to admit ancient men could've been into fats

>>11796 Definitely an archaeologists cope. I've always thought the back is much too detailed to have been produced from her first person view. The dedication to her proportions alongside the attention to detail, creases, cute hand placement and hair make this far higher quality than any other sculpture found from this era. We are clearly looking at the work of a deeply inspired, Palaeolithic fat connoisseur. I find it quite moving.

>>11800 Plus is it not mans natural drive to admire and recreate to beauty of the female body through art? I can think of numerous works of art by male that attempt to reproduce the female form, either real or idealised. I can not think of a single nude self portrait by a woman. Why should the current prevailing idea as to the Venus of Willendorf's creation be treated as anomalous from this trend? Especially given that there are many other clearly fat female sculptures produced during the Paleolithic era and others. Are we to assume that these were all produced by the curious self admirer too? This self portrait idea can almost be entirely disregarded in my view.

>>11802 i think its just stupid on the face of it really. like as if some scrawny bitch is just gonna accidentally give herself like three times the girth just because looking down at herself might present ever so slightly inaccurate proportions. i'm pretty sure she'd be able to tell just from other parts of her body that she's clearly not anywhere near that size if she wasn't. the only real evidence for it is her thin forearms which were probably just hastily added once the sculptor realized her arms looked fused into her sides. they don't match the girth of her shoulders at all

>>11800 I really don't know how someone can look at this and say DURR ITS A PREGNANT WOMAN, HURR DURR ITS AKSHUALLY A FAT MAN, OOH OOH NO AKSHUALLY ITS A SELF PORTRAIT. I'll never understand why its so hard to believe that there could be societies where caloric surpluses are possible and that there were some men who liked that. People vastly underestimate the intelligence and capabilities of our ancestors.

I just started dating a Moroccan girl, and my tastes are fairly normal over there.

>>13626 Give us some details!

>>4623 I meant to post this at the time (so, back in like June lol) but I actually made the pilgrimage to see Venus of Willendorf when I visited Vienna last year

Bumping Thread to ensure it doesn't fade into obscurity. Also want more ancient fatties.

>>11800 >Definitely an archaeologists cope Coping how? It doesn't imply that the girl was skinny. It does account for the frankly mutant proportions in some of these if you consider that the POV, the carver, was probably also the subject. The first selfies? >>11796 >bitch could've just looked in a pond I don't think you've considered how difficult it would be to get a good look at anything besides your own face this way. Try it sometime.

>>15742 Well. here you can see a lady image cut off and reproduced from some Medieval miniature, but i dont know what the source miniature is.

>>15742 Coping for it being created from a second persons perspective. Some of the details included would be difficult to replicate from ones own perspective. And yet why would someone bother creating a sculpture of someone like this unless they were motivated by admiration, lust or idealisation? Many current archeological theories seem to disregard the motivations behind modern sculpture to explain away the creation of these Venus'. >>15733 Not ancient nor real but still fun. The image is of "Nebutori", a name akin to "sleep weight gain". This particular image comes from "Ehon Hyaku Monogatari" (Picture Book of a Hundred Stories) published around 1841 but it's from an older folklore tale. It describes a mystery illness that affects women who enjoy eating and sleeping a lot. Once afflicted, they begin to massively expand during the night. Their appetites grow, and they begin to eat more and more, and expand more and more. Eventually they become too big to even leave their rooms. The story describes how an afflicted woman's household require 10 futons or tatami (for sleeping on), 3 of them for her husband, the remaining 7 for her. The story goes that afflicted women possess little sex appeal but I would think otherwise.

>>15762 wow, there are some nebutoris even in manga and anime https://gegegenokitaro.fandom.com/wiki/Nebutori/Gallery

>>15762 Still, coping for what? You're trying to prove that porn has existed since the stone age. Maybe it has but you've already made up your mind no matter what anyone says.

>>15762 Read the first sentence again for my answer to your previous question. Also art needn't necessarily be porn. The vast majority of artists throughout history were men. I find it very unlikely that this statue is anomalous to that, furthermore from it being from such an unusual first person view.

>>15789 Through the last 20 years there were several scientific articles that proved that Stone Age Venuses reproduce various real stages and types of obesity in women. In other words, they were made from nature, not by imagination using exaggeration. Abstract symbolism, be it of FA/feederism or fertility kind,, would give something alike average DA ussbbw figures. i.e.unrealistic ones. This fact erases any real difference between "fertility theory" and "fat erotic theory". If you want to make a figurine of a fertility or ojher feminine goddess and choose obese figure for her, it means that you find obesity especially beautiful and sexual. Its impossible to imagine that the carver was thinking as follows: "Oh, obesity in women is ugly, I dont like it at all, but the Goddess MUST be obese, because my myphological and symbolical way of thinking orders me to think so; so I will make Goddesses figurines in a shape which is ugly for my own tastes and for the tastes of my tribe, because the Goddess simply must have just such a form, i know it well!" Did anyone make Hera, Athene or Aphrodite, or Zeus or Ares ugly (for the tastes of one's own time) because some concept compelled them to think that these deities must by some unspoken reason have an ugly form? So if the people made their goddesses in ssbbw shape, it means that they felt this shape to be beautiful, and if ther reproduced real kinds and stages of obesity in these figures, it means that such women existed among them and were admired - as their forms were choosen to be given to the feminine Goddesses. Period. And iif the situation was of this very kind. it would be very strange if ALL such figurines were produced only as the figurines of Goddesses and not a single one of them was produced just as a piece of art commemorating feminine beauty of real, mortal women of reality As for "selfies theory" - its imposssible. The first mirrors emerged in Bronze Age. An only way for a person of the Stone Age to see his own face was to see its reflection in a suitable body of water. No possibility for autoportraits at all.

>>15792 The lack of reflective surfaces was already covered in the thread, try and keep up.

Damn i love this stuff.

>>16155 Thought it was a good idea to drop this here. I like how the section on slender people mainly consist of musings on how to make people fat.

>>16156 Can you give us the gist of what it says?

>>16160 It's a historical account of remarkably fat people, remarkably thin people (although that section has only two persons in it, and the characterizations of their physiques are obvious jokes, and the rest is filled with remedies against meagreness), and remarkably great eaters.

>>16162 Not bad. Care to translate for us english speakers.

>>4623 Irrelevant but fun fact, Göbleki Tepe, one of the oldest living human structures in the world, pre-agriculture, means "Potbelly Hill"

https://youtu.be/1JoxqKvZP2c

A mother lode. Came across these clips from a Korean documentary on a supposed "fat village". They're a must watch. During the interviews of the men, they claim that their taste in fat women has been passed down over thousands of years. I've narrowed the location down to Phuket, Thailand. The village is apparently on the outskirts of Phuket but I need help in finding exactly where. I need a holiday soon and this sounds exactly like where I should go. Any help in finding the exact location and a link to the original documentary plus any other material would be most appreciated. https://www.tiktok.com/@tommymovie/video/7112746795117366574 https://www.tiktok.com/@tommymovie/video/7112748209067281707

>>16583 Based. Cute name too, I shall have to start using it. Almost as cute as Butter Bean.

> Phuket, Thailand Even better than BANG COCK amirite?

>>11800 Its definitely a a guy drawing making a model of a fat chick he's into. If we were to believe that humans had the "universal" beauty standards we have now I don't see why a woman would make sculpture of herself if she is seen as "unattractive" >>11964 I've noticed society seems to have a massive aversion to the idea of men actually like fat women, as if its something utterly impossible. Its really bizzarre just how much many hate that concept, almost as if a few men liking fat chicks is an attack on their existence. Additionally people seem to vastly underestimate the intelligence and capability of past of humans, like to come up with other copes like (its not possible to get that fat pre agricultural)or whatever

>>15825 Its really thought provoking and goes against the paradigm of "universal beauty" standards thats normally enforced, especially in the west. At least up until recently you're never really given an alternative. Every where in media if if a chick is even slightly overweight they're seen as jokes or as gross, and you're taught its always been like this across pretty much all cultures (excaerbated too by homogenization as other countries adopt western values, for better and for worse), until you find out it isn't and people had more varied tastes than media let on.

>>17289 Lol this guy thinks he's going to just waltz into some remote village and fuck a bunch of obese Thai bitches.

Food scarcity up until recently meant only the wealthy could be fat and it was a sign of status. Then cheap available fattening foods meant everyone could be and then it was all about showing how wealthy you were by keeping yourself thin by paying someone to watch your food intake. The diet culture really boomed with the electric revolution. Cause food didn't spoil instantly. And everyone always wants to follow along with what the cool rich are doing. And it's usually just a "thin worker is an effective worker" in more dire places, against the mentality of the individual fed and happy family.

>>17332 ...or walk around gawking and taking phone pics. He'll be ground up for a nice platter of thai larb.

>>17289 I heard Thailand has a contest called "Jumbo Queen." It's their version of a plus size modeling contest.

>>17346 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5MXWhLk_pU

Found more ancient Venuses, from a twitter post. I really would like to see the coping anti fat people deny that these were men making sculptures of fat women

>>17332 Have I got news for you.

>>7676 So, I've been thinking on something today. We have a meme with some bit of truth about high testosterone men liking fat women. And we know that the jews once were in Egypt (no shit) and may have retained some of the cultural practices of ancient Egyptians, with feederism probably being one of them. It is also theorized that Paleolithic venuses were made by neandrethals, or by people strongly influenced by them. We also know that Neanderthals had higher testosterone levels and were exposed more to this hormone during their puberty development. Researching more on BRCA genes in Ashkenazim and Neanderthals and their common ancestry is also may be the vital part of this examination. So what if, just saying, it's a jewish cabal hidden in plain sight?

>>17817 I dig your theory... in theory. But FYI, Ancient Egyptians were excellent record keepers and there's zero evidence Jews were ever there. It is, as my 4 Ashkenazi grandparents would say, a bubbemietze.

>>17821 True. The Kingdom of Egypt conquered Canaan for a time, but the Hebrews never went to Egypt proper, according to all other records and archeological findings. I’d take the Old Testament more as a theological document than a literal historical account.

>>17835 >the Bible is held in esteem amongst atheist academics for its reputable accuracy of historical events LOL

>>17821 Yeah definitely not according to the book however there is a fun bit of archeology that suggests a pharaoh was essentially pushed from Egypt because of his faith in monotheism around AMEN as the polytheistic priests pushed back. Some say he died but there is some record of a city that was built to the east that was for the removed pharaoh to worship his way and was an essential stopping point for trade, before the city eventually fell and moved further away. Doesn't that sound familiar? I wish historians we're willing to rip that bandaid off so we could actually try looking at history proper and how it relates to these religious texts instead of ignoring it for the peace of mind of those who take it literally.

>>15742 >It doesn't imply that the girl was skinny. that's exactly what it implies. she's not even particularly big and coping archeologists still act like there's some kind of obvious distortion going on when the average american dad is like twice as fat

>>15742 >I don't think you've considered how difficult it would be to get a good look at anything besides your own face this way. Try it sometime. you're the one arguing that the figure must be some kind of distortion. you're still not at all acknowledging the effort it'd take to do things like the backside in first person. there just isn't any sensible evidence that these are representations of the artist. the reason it's cope is because it's just an obvious contrived excuse so bone fetishist archeologists can believe no one in prehistory could've possibly liked fat women.

>>17845 source

Some kind of related but still off-topic A new movie is going to be released soon and theres a scene with bbw and ssbw harem Even the movie poster has some fatsos

>>18078 Wow, from George Miller of Mad Max, who brought us this in his last film... He's definitely got a thing.

>>18095 Maybe based on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibrahim_of_the_Ottoman_Empire

>>18078 Yet another film I shall be watching in it's entirety for the sub two minute scene that features fat women.

Some very interesting reads in this thread. The short summary is that FAs and SSBBWs are of all times.

>>5135 >Goes to fat women porn site >Hates fat women Are you retarded? How the fuck did you even get here?

>>16153 >>16162 >>16424 Thanks for the interesting text. It would be a lot of work, though fun, to translate it accurately, because this is 17th ct German and some of the words are no longer in use or have changed their meaning. Also a knowledge of the historical context would be helpful or needed to be researched. Especially their idea of medicine at the time, since it is alluded to the idea that fatness comes from too much blood (Gebluethe), among other things like temperature and temperament. Anyway, the incident of the fat ropemaker ('s wife) of Strassbourg seems to be corroborated by other sources ( https://ia801607.us.archive.org/29/items/dasaltestrassbur00seyb/dasaltestrassbur00seyb.pdf ) and also led me to an article by Der Spiegel, in which the medical Historian Michael Stolberg from the University of Wuerzburg talks about the "surprisingly long" history of adiposity. Unfortunately the article is behind a paywall. https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/fett-mit-petersilie-austreiben-a-1ea2cf8a-0002-0001-0000-000086109266 Slim chances, I guess, to find someone with a subscription around here.

>>19271 May we have a brief synopsis of the ropemakers fat wife? I can't find anything from searching in English.

>>19261 because he actually does love fat women but would get made fun of by his /pol/ buddies for it so he has to post plausible deniability memes

>>19261 I don't know much about sculptures of fatties, but those imageboard infographics are always so incorrect when it's something you do know about lol

>>19282 This is on the third page, lines 7-9: "Also there is known the fat [female] ropemaker in Strasbourg, who, at the age of 36 years, weighed 480 pounds." The German pound of that time was presumably between the modern standardized German pound (500 grams) and the avoirdupois pound (~454 grams). Other sources give more details on her hubby. "Johann Georg Haag the fat ropemaker of the town and his even fatter wife [name not given] (They weighed 929 Pounds together, [source:] v. Friese, Vaterlaendische Geschichte, S. 17 ... " There (p. 17) it says: The fat Ropemaker and his even fatter wife. Johann Georg Haag, the town's ropemaker, and his wife, Anna Maria, lived in the [name of the house and place]. Because of their very extraordinary girth they were talked about even in remote places, and no stranger liked to leave Strassbourg without having seen these monstrous yet so well educated human beings. Encouraged by distinguished people, the corpulent couple had themselves weighed on the hay scales in 1612, for which the were gifted 100 thaler, which they soon passed to the poor in the hospital. They weighed 929 Pounds. The weight of the man was 440 pounds. The woman however was, in the 36th year of her life, 4 zentner [i.e. 4 x 100 pounds] and 89 pounds. She died in the year 1620. Her coffin allegedly was 5 shoes [~feet] wide and carried by ten strong men. Apart from that, history tells about this obese couple: that they were rich and inclined to sensuality; that they, among other tasty tidbits, indulged especially in fat salmon; that they died young and childless - that is all: but our dear Lord and God protect us from such posthumous fame! With food and drink to overburden oneself / does never befit a good human; Because then the best thigs must cause harm / that otherwise invigorate the body. Who lives in moderation, stays healthy / And is useful to the world with [their] hand and mouth!

>>19293 Der dicke Stadtseiler von Straßburg hat sogar einen Wikipediaartikel: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jörg_Haag Das Straßburger Pfund der Frühen Neuzeit entsprach 473,727 g, so dass er 208,5 kg (459 lbs) wog und sie 231,7 kg (510 lbs). Die beiden sollen auch für ihre flotten Sprüche berühmt gewesen sein. Hier gibt's einen ganzen Artikel über das Pärchen (auf Französisch, um unsere angelsächsischen Freunde noch mal besonders zu ärgern): https://books.google.de/books?id=9T9eVQw5JLgC&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&dq=%22Yerri%20Haag%22&hl=de&pg=PA97#v=onepage&q&f=false

>>18078 Bumping this thread because it's too good to let it die. I also found this instagram called historical fat people Someone made a compilation of the harem scenes from 3,000 years of longing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2XVjMDNTkco https://www.instagram.com/historicalfatpeople/?hl=en

>>20907 3000YoL harem scene has been taken down, boo. If anyone saved it, I'd appreciate a look.

>>18095 i can't find a source for this, but i recall the woman on the left is ssbbw model lushes thunder. and the main courtesan in 3000 years of longing is ssbbw model kiyomi

>>20907 >>20943 seconding this. really want to see those scenes. even screencaps would be nice

>>21595 A righteous anon posted this another thread. I haven't seen the movie yet so I'm not sure if this is everything with Ibrahim and the gals but it's a sexy little taste: https://we.tl/t-qc5qxSVxSt

>>21642 thank you and to the original anon. i don't think that's everything in the movie, because i hear there's a scene where >>21250 accidentally smashes something with her butt, revealing the genie's bottle

>>21654 Good to know... Maybe someone with a bootleg will come through with that scene as well.

>>21662 Here you go. Download the scene. It's right at the end. https://www.dropbox.com/s/d500q0cip6beh37/3000%20years%20bbw.mp4?dl=0

>>22430 Oh wow — thanks!

>>7309 indeed. Quite a nice documentary as well. Also thread bump https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqntl_LhREI

>>24304 Nice bump, thanks. But it always amuses me how the women are really not fat in these docs. They talk about health issues but they barely look obese (mediclally speaking) which leads me to believe the issues are more due to lousy health care in general in these areas. Anyway I've visited Egypt and Morocco — two countries where fat women are very much desired — and saw women way larger than anyone in this doc, or the BBC feature that's been floating around YouTube for a while. Not many, but enough to lead me to believe the Tuaregs/Berbers are either really bad at feeding or hide the best of their results from the cameras.

>>24305 perhaps we just need to find a better documentary then. i remember one where the girls visbly gained weight. this is not that.

>>24368 There's a book called the Sheltering Sky by Paul Bowles about a couple from the UK who travel through Morocco and the woman is threatened with being kidnapped by Tuaregs and force-fed. IMO the book is kind of boring and dated so not worth it for the quick mention. Just thought I'd put it out there as a rare example of this practice being mentioned by a Western writer. Anyway a quick search turned up these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25DxHXz8ZUQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N24CZ_Gf0uw There's also this article: https://viola.bz/force-feeding-farm-for-girls-in-mauritania/ The woman in the first picture would be in the lower 50% of the BMI curve in any black neighborhood in my city. The rest are absolutely typical of women you see out and about, and smaller than their peers in South Africa or Egypt. This woman (attached) shows up a lot in image searches as an example of Mauritanian fat women, but she's of a similar size as any grandma you'd see at a market in Russia, Brazil, India, the UK, or other parts of Africa for that matter. Not saying this is not an age-old practice in the Maghreb just they're not very good at it. I'd still love to see an example, old or contemporary, of a fattened-up bride who's actually fat.

>>5135 I know personally that areas in what is not the UAE preferred fat women. I remember one account of this fairly wealthy dude who was both a definite feeder and manipulative sadist. According to the recounting, his most precious treasure/toy, was one of his wives that "required the efforts of four women to help her move". According to the same historical document, this was demonstrated when he offered her a rare and expensive pearl, if she were to stand up unaided. Reportedly she did, but quickly fell, bloodied her nose, and was unable to pull herself to her feet from there. He gave her the pearl and helped her up, but visibly enjoyed the experience. Also, belly dancing doesn't make sense without some womanly bulk. Even if it's just enough pudge to give a girl some extra tit and hip, the motions don't make sense unless you assume jiggle is desired.

>>24460 Yeah, a meme designed with PotatoWare, written in BroSpeak, featuring a dozen grammar mistakes and misspellings, that cites no sources, isn't gonna be the last word on anything. Shouldn't even be the first. It's way more than "a few tribes in Africa" lol. Cultures throughout Africa and the Middle East have traditionally and often still prefer women who are what we in the West would call "fat." Add various parts of the Indian Subcontinent, the Mediterranean, and a lot of Latin America to that as well. There has been a major shift in attitudes with the advent of mass communication, where Westernized beauty standards (pale, thin) have bumped aside traditional tastes. To me this just proves attractiveness is subjective and maleable. I was raised by a thin mom in a fat-phobic, pre-SA society yet I lust after fatties. Huh. Not to mention there's a difference between aesthetic beauty (often dictated by women and gay men and sexual attractiveness. Anyway yeah, nothing sadder than a skinny woman trying to belly dance. The moves and costumes were expressly created so showcase a fat stomach.

>>24467 What if I told you that I happen to know the person that created the internet meme?

>>24470 I'd say pass along my critique and some cyanide.

>>24487 You enjoy to criticize but when you are gone from this existance the world will be much better for it.

>>24490 Oh and maybe tell them to sit in the car in a closed garage with the motor running as well, just to be sure.

>>24492 I remember that post.

>>7309 >>24304 >>24305 Re: Force fattening in the Sahara, I hit paydirt with a book called Feeding Desire on Internet Archive (https://archive.org/details/feedingdesirefat0000pope/page/186/mode/2up). This takes place next door in Niger but the rituals and culture seem similar to the Mauritanians that have been documented. The book is academic but readable and there's some good tidbits. A few photos too, really low quality but a couple of them are better representations than the various documentaries available on YouTube (I'm the guy who bitched about the women they show not actually being that fat). For anyone who doesn't want to get a "library card" from the site to look at the book, here are two pages from the intro to set the scene and the best chapter, which goes into the fattening rituals in the most depth, though there are great tidbits throughout. Sorry for the poor quality, is what it is.

>>25125 Sorry the pages are out of order... Not sure why they posted like that.

>>25137 Thank you for these kingly labors anon, this is a fascinating read

>>25137 I read the whole thing, fascinating stuff and accounts from a culture developed around fatness and their aesthetics, even if it's from the pov of a western anthropologist. I wonder if there's some dusty old tome lurking in a library in Morocco somewhere, written in Tuareg, describing their tenets around fatness.

>>25163 I agree, it’s also fascinating that the female author’s own thinness was commented on by the culture. There’s an idea for a good weight gain story or comic in there somewhere

>>25166 >thinness thin ly ness thinlyness

>>25163 If you were into that chapter I suggest checking out the whole book. Actual WG and fat girl descriptions are less frequent but the author goes deep into the culture and consciousness of that tribe, that helps give a foundation to their preferences. For instance there's this idea that women should be immobile, not literally but "hard to move" that's hot AF. >>25166 There's at least six ideas in there! Looking forward to developing a story myself when I have time...

>>11796 >bitch could've just looked in a pond for her reflection What? When was the last time you looked at yourself in a pond? It would've only resulted in a different kind of abstraction.

>>25464 That sounds like a lot of imagination used to contrast with the much simpler, 'cope' explanation.

>>25463 >>25464 As covered earlier in the discussion: 1. There were no mirrors during 20-30k BC when the Willendorf figurine was created. 2. A body of water would really only work in helping to render the face, and the Willendorf figurine doesn't have one. The point was whether the Willendorf figurine was a self-portrait, and I think that's a reach. Or rather, a revisionist cope, part of an attempt to prop up the idea that stone age European cultures were female-led utopias. Toward that idea, trying to elevate the Willendorf figurine as something other than a fetish item (the dominant modern theory) is suposed to give agency to women of that era, by taking typical male objectification out of the equation. (I am a feminist btw, but one who believes women deserve agency because they're 50% of humanity, and that facing reality head-on is better than creating empowering fairy tales and insisting they're truth.)

>>25464 The vast majority of female depictions in art produced throughout history were created by men. Why would this one early sculpture go against that trend. Would a woman spend hours, even days making this, and for what reason? Or is it perhaps the work of a horny Palaeolithic fat loving man.

>>25499 >perhaps the work of a horny Palaeolithic fat loving man This is the leading theory right now. The "goddess" thing has been written off as 19th Century bias and the self-portrait theory is just batshit.

>>25520 That's good to hear. Had enough of the endless coping around all these fat statues.

>>7676 Crazy how many Arab countries are near the top of the list https://data.worldobesity.org/rankings/?age=a&sex=f

>>25529 There are plenty of theories about the Egyptian depiction of the Queen of Punt, but honestly I just see an honest attempt at drawing extreme obesity from recollection/description.

>>26798 The proportions look like Achondroplastic dwarfism to me. They then scaled her up because she’s the Queen, after all.

Hey. I've lurked here for awhile. Figured I should at least give something back. And maybe shift the convo away from adrenochromatic dwarfism. Be gentle, it's my first time. There's some drawings in there about whst I think some of Our Ladies coulda looked like. https://spergbox.wordpress.com/2023/03/24/category-venus/ Enjoy. Or don't. Whatever floats your boat or sinks your dinghy.

>>28519 Thanks for sharing your work, brother. These are great. Love your takes on Catalhoyuk in particular -- that one I've always found difficult to visualize as an actual human woman, but I think you nailed it. The politics aren't mine, but I'm not gonna shit a brick about it.

>>28522 My pleasure. I know my politics aren't for everyone. But in Anti-Plato's Cave, nunnadat mattahs.

Bit of a second helping. For yous' considerations. https://spergbox.wordpress.com/2023/04/14/the-curious-case-of-the-palaeolithikkk-porkchop/

>>28618 I'm a Jew (who looks the part) with Black people in my family and a Mexican best friend, and I live in a deep blue city on a block that looks like the smoke break room at the UN, happily. We probably wouldn't hang out IRL. That said, I found your essay interesting and entertaining, even if I winced a few times as you veered a little too close to WP stuff for my ancestral comfort. Moral of the story is that love of fat women brings us all together. Kumbaya.

>>28618 Oh and PS, I've been spreading the gospel of that Apolcalypse Culture essay for decades. Hit me upside the head like a mallet when I first saw it — pre-internet, and thus one of the first validations of my preference/fetish/whatever I'd come across. (At least the first that wasn't a joke.) Second was Dimensions (paper) magazine, shortly after. Also related: in one of Norman Mailer's later, lesser, and longer novels, Ancient Evenings, there's a brief appearance by a hugely fat witch-priestess whose size is related to her powers — they increased as she grew in size. Another one of those 1-page mentions of female fatness that justified an entire 400 page, otherwise fairly worthless book.

>>28619 Shalom, Boy in the Striped Pajamas, you know it's not the 90s anymore eh? The average RW guy is surprisingly just as diverse as you. Recent world events should have made this clear.

>>28635 They're whores. The same way they suck Biden's cock is the same way they would suck China's cock, or maybe not Chinese but definitely the same way they would suck some other cock. They're whores with ethics. They've got standards.

>>8249 Interesting. I bet you can make some reasonably decent snacks out of that and put that to the test.

Would this count as feederism? I found an old photo of a female sumo wrestler and she looks pretty fat. I imagine that some of them went on the diet to put on weight. I read to that sumo wrestling originated in China and that there were female sumos who wrestled topless.

>>32348 Racist

>>17332 Hey, Never know if you don't try.

>>32341 From what I've read the pros stuff themselves with rice all day to get bigger. They're celebrities despite existing in what seems like one of the thinnest societies on earth. So I'd say there are aspects of feedism involved for sure, even if they don't specifically fatten up for sexual reasons.

>>32406 Women hate the internet because men rate women on their looks and spend all day whining about misogyny. They're already whining that Margot Robbie is considered mid, or how Miles didn't hook up with a Black.woman

Maybe Andrea Dworkin fat feminists would've been accepted if they birthed their own. Too bad she was New Jersey trash. At least Rosanne birthed 5 children and sent one of them to fat camp

>>32406 I came across articles mentioning how in various parts of Japan, female sumo was practiced, but separate. In case one wonders why Sumo is traditionally male, it's because of Shinto beliefs that menstrual blood is impure. I did come across old photos showing Female sumo, but it appears that it was practiced independently. There is work to have female sumos be treated as mainstream. There are also foreign women sumos who practice across other nations and cultures.

>>32406 From what I heard, Sumo wrestlers undergo a lot of hard training and work, so they likely aren't viewed as fatties stuffing themselves with doughnuts/fast food 5 times a day. I did question why anime/manga sometimes uses fat jokes regarding sumo wrestling. Like having episodes/chapters where characters after gaining weight become sumo wrestlers. Or having sumo wrestler be fatties obssessed with food. I do note to that they design sumos or sumo coded characters as cartoonish/simplistic in terms of facial/body design or make them more muscular. I imagine a lot of these artists don't know how to draw fat people so muscular designs are used. As well as how this can convey the image of a big strong man without needing to draw a big fat body.

I read how in places like Tahiti and Fiji they would fatten up men and women. Men to be strong and women to be better at having kids.In Nauru, it would be a community event for people to fatten themselves up.

With some of the old photos of female sumos, I remember some of the women looking rather plump. I imagine that some of these women who practiced sumo would have gone on the diets of wrestlers.

I'll just leave this here.

damn, hot.

>>33426 >>33427 >>33428 >>33429 >sprit photography >fat chicks >the Inmost Light Muybridge was insanely based.

>>33426 >>33427 >>33428 >>33429 Nice see the earliest photographers had good taste.

>>33426 How did a woman get that obese back then? She must have been stuffed like a foie gras with sausage and sauerkraut every day.

Still one of my favorite threads

>>38255 Agreed. It shows the potential this board has, rather than twenty threads with dudes crying about how hard it is to be into fat women. Somehow the political pundits and schizos stayed away too, which was a bonus.

>>38261 >>38255 Creating this thread is the proudest moment in my fat women admiring career. And I’m glad it’s not just me thinking about the various theories around these depictions. Thanks for the excellent discussion everyone!

>>38261 >inb4 "kisame here..."

I was interested to learn about fat women history with this board

>>32348 Kek

Does anyone have more thoughts on the question of how women got so fat before industrial food? Here's the original question: >how could someone become as fat as this whilst eating a neolithic diet without near constant consumption? We only really got a couple answers, one about mixing food nuts and berries, and another about the sumo diet (which would be from a much later period), which as I understand it centers on a bunch of soup with tons of meat, noodles, and veggies. Do we know anything else about premodern diets that would allow people to reach extreme fatness?

>>42875 You had farming in the neolithic period, stuff like wheat, rice, and corn (depending on region), and domesticated animals. So that's a steady source of starch, and dairy as well as fattier meat (compared to hunting wild animals). Still I'd think the person would have to be seriously predisposed to fatness to reach Willendorf size. And/or be in a presumably privileged situation where they didn't have to work at all so they could eat constantly and expend very little energy.

>>42876 You're understanding things here. There are two things to consider here: >Once there's agriculture, it's over. A constant stream of meat, and, most importantly, high-calorie wheat and other staple crops, means it's theoretically possible to become as fat as you want >Hierarchy was hugely important in these early societies. Today our hierarchies are very complex, but back then it was a simple tiered system. One man above another, with the men at the top not doing much hard labor. It's a patriarchal system mostly, and the top dogs still have wives who do even less than their husbands. Thus, with afformentioned staple crops, they can swell up as fat as they want, fatter than the Willendorf even! They didn't tend to do this since being too fat was still a social taboo in most societies, but it's very possible

>>42945 my thout is think babalon an thers money now kinda and they trading but guy (me) chad has fat fetish and he makes rich then his son inherits his rich and the ways to make it and gets richer and buys all the fats and starch and HONEY so he makes first granola type bars but uses it to make his 900 pound mom to be 2000 pounds!!! and his wife even FATTER and pases to his son with the rich and the secrets andnew wife STARTS at 2000 pounds and get to 5000 POUNDS

>>42875 >>42945 On the question of hierarchy, I would say that was the key. If you look at the statues of reclining fat women from Malta for instance, they were found in religious contexts - a caste of fat priestesses? In the past beauty standards were typically set by the aristocracy, it's a relatively recent phenomenon to see the lower classes exerting influence on beauty standards (which the modern aristocracy don't follow but that's a digression), if we assume that obesity was a desirable trait, or if it was associated with a particular station in society then it would have been something generally only available to those of a higher rank.

>>42875 If I can find I I'll post. I read something about a Muslim cult. The women ate animal fat rolled in bread and swallowed it with water or beer or somethin. Sounded hot as fukk. You just know there was some fat fukkin woman back before the collapse of the bronze age. It probably wasn't fetish either. It be like a great honor to become so obese youre a literal goddess. Imagine the transformation of middle eastern women from slightly chubby (which they seem to be predisposed to) into a belly wobbling ass jiggling tit sagging stretchmarked Nahif.

>>43073 You might be thinking of gavage which is apparently still practiced Mauritania.

Gotta give you credit for fapping to historic fanfics tho, not many are so addicted to fat that they have to make prehistoric shit up for an orgasm.

>>43073 https://journals.openedition.org/anisl/3059?lang=ar I think this is the article Couple of retards above don't know history very well

>>43138 Thanks for posting this. It’s the same retard, one with anger issues and a shit fetish so take his criticism for what it’s worth. There’s plenty of evidence of force-fattening of women in North Africa going back centuries, some of it posted earlier in this thread.

>>43149 > It’s the same retard, one with anger issues and a shit fetish Which one is that? Is it the Kisame everyone seems to be talking about?

>>43150 Spanish flags and no self-identification or nonsensical references to politics or eastern Queens/Long Island, so, no, not him.

>>43150 No, Kisame is the one who goes off topic to mention random bits of his life and politics . Shit guy is the guy who goes off topic to mention shit.

>>43150 >>43163 >>43164 I don't know what you mean. I am the real Slim Shady Kisame and I took a nap after coming home from church.

>>43150 >>43163 >>43164 Don't tell me you created a DJ Khaled Arab Kisame? Just look at how Ron crashed and burn cause he won't stop with chan culture

>>43164 There are a lot of people talking about shit on this website. It is a website about fat people after all. Some of it’s pretty on topic and well measured, some people are immature and think dookie is funny, some people do get hard to the idea of human excrement

still best thread

>>43585 That theory has been sorely tested of late. Here's my favorite object in the Metropolitan Museum of Art: https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/255417

>>43599 Kisami here: These figurines remind me of the artwork by that mentally ill individual who scupted a disturbing, headless effigy of boberry out of a blob of hardened animal fard.

Goldmine thread

>>45172 My favorite bbwchan thread was that psychopath who made an effigy of boberry out of hardened lard and wax. Like some perverted Helga Pataki of Willendorf fetish doll.

Actual stone carvings from the cave of La Marche, Actual paleolithic depictions of obese people. Look at the double chin. We are Retvrning Guys, they were 100% fat fetishists. https://donsmaps.com/marche.html

>>45768 Our ancestors knew what mattered. They fed their women well so they could survive the ice age.

>>45768 "Fetish" in the original sense was "an inanimate object worshiped for its supposed magical powers or because it is considered to be inhabited by a spirit." The was adapted for the modern psychological definition. As discussed way earlier in this thread, the idea of Willendorf and other fat lady figurines as "goddesses" has been questioned in recent years. They very well could have been Stone Age porn. My amateur theory is that they're a bit of both. I imagine where the food supply was erratic (if not necessarily scarce all the time), and much of the world wasn't well-understood, it makes sense they'd manifest an ideal of a well-fed woman as a wish for both prosperity and fertility. This in the same way modern faithful pray for health and prosperity for themselves and their families and communities. I don't think it's an accident that even today we see appreciation of fat women in cultures that are more economically insecure. Sexuality may very well have been tied into it as well, in a way most modern religions would see as perverse. Sex as a forbidden thing is a foundation of Abrahamic religions but they've only been dominant for a few thousand years, and for the bulk of that period in very specfiic areas. Meanwhile if you go to India there's a 4,000 year old temple where the entrance is decorated with vaginas. Bottom line, in dismissing the idea these are goddesses, we're still looking at them through our own modern, Western lens.

https://books.google.se/books?id=yTogAAAAQBAJ&pg=PA3&hl=sv&source=gbs_toc_r&cad=1#v=onepage&q&f=false quite an interesting book on the subject

See some Indian traditional pieces Indian art by eightynineone on @DeviantArt https://www.deviationart.com/gallery

>>50325 Is this legit or just more AI art? This is about legit ancient BBW art, not modern art using an older style whether drawn or made with AI. Like no pieces by artists that draw in tradition Japanese/Chinese styles. No art drawn in medival styles. Unless the pieces are legitimately old and date from 50+ years ago, they shouldn't be posted here.

>>50325 Fuck off with you ai garbage

I would hardly believe that AI is capable of this. Can AI really make something like old South Asian cheap popular woodcut prints? Besides, wouldn't AI give much more details? For me, it looks like the most cheap rough South Asian popular prints, of course not modern ones, may be edited through some Photoshop-like filters to make them clearer, as happens when preparing some copied image to put it as illustration in some edition. But that’s not what I’m talking about, I am not an expert in South Asian crafts. I want to draw attention to material that is certainly authentic, 15,000 years ago, from the Magdalenian cave Marche, https://www.donsmaps.com/marche.html There, various drawings were scratched on the stone, unfortunately, usually one on top of the other (sometimes it meant two stages of events, or contact, or just variants of one images), but you can still often make out which contours belong to what. See the faces there (see link), they are really fantastic. And fat women were depicted systematically. Here I attach (in photos and drawings), one piece from there which contains definitely an image of a very fat woman sitting, and it is very likely that several contours were added to show her even fatter (on the second photo they are drawn in different colors: red, the main contour, green and blue - visible lines that seem to be additional contours making variants of the same female figure), and I add three drawings, one of them shows the main figure, and the other two show tentatively how she would look with these additional contours.

Oh, i see, the topic was already mentioned in https://bbw-chan.link/gen/res/4623.html#q45768 But the drawings I posted as additions to photo are new stuff, so I hope it was OK

As appendix, i add recently (in 2019) found Venus of Piatra Neamț, She is of just the same figure type and iconography as Venus of Willendorf, but she is even fatter. It was made thousands of years later than Venus of Willendorf by Epigravettians - direct descendants of Gravettian tribes who made Venus of Willendorf. These three related groups: Gravettians, с. 31 000 - 19 000 BCE, Epigravettians, c. 19000 - 8000 BCE amd Magdalenians, c. 15 000 - 9000 BCE (and their later descendants) are responsible for the great majority of ssbbw and bbw Stone Age images in Europe. Cf. la Marmtta Venus c. 4500 BCE (see next two images) and famous Malta Venuses. As for the Grotte de la Marché, its drawings are especially valuable in that they completely resolve the endless debate about whether the fat Venuses of the Stone Age were fantasized, unrealistically deformed and symbolic figures representing the ideas of ​​​​fertility, wealth and the mother goddess, or whether they convey the appearance of real women who were considered beautiful, or both. The drawings from the grotte de la Marche convey completely realistic everyday scenes, the faces and figures there are realistic and clearly not related to any myths, it is impossible to attach ritual significance to them. There is a scene where a young aroused man dances joyfully while his beloved awaits him in sexual pose (above of him on the drawing, https://www.donsmaps.com/images33/p1130774marche.jpg ), there are tens of faces of common people ( https://www.donsmaps.com/marche.html , in the middle of the article), there are two compositions where a plump daugher stands behind her fat sitting mother ( see last two attaches, they are different drawings). Even Gimbutas wouldnt have dare to say that they are fantastic symbolic transformations of human body with ritual aims. Thus, the corpulent Venuses, regardless of whether they also depicted a female deity, conveyed the appearance of real women who were considered beautiful. In fact, it is not surprising that this was the case during the eras in question, because it was a time of massive hunting of huge quantities of megafauna species. The males were engaged in this hunt, there was an incredible amount of food, and women generally did not need to move much or go far from the camps. The situation was different only while climatic deteriorations, when the quantity of animals was sharply smaller, and it was necessary to move from place to place in order to get enough of them. But for more than 20,000 years of Gravettian, Epigravettian and Magdalenian cultures , there were more than enough centuries and millennia when this did not happen. Gravettians>

>>50350 Great stuff, thanks for reviving this thread in a meaningful way.

Let me return to this topic on a new basis. Now here https://www.deviantart.com/eightynineone you can see galleries of texts and images contributed by online team to the owner of the page. It is like a club with materials on bbws and ssbbws in history, old arts and folklore, and with modern illustrations depicting historical bbws and ssbbws. I have studied this issue and can share my ideas, although it may be too long and boring. (1) Males' attraction to women is based narurally on preferences tied to the differences between women and women's bodies from men and men's bodies. These differences are a complex of three components: A) Having body parts that men do not have, or body shapes that are not expressed usually in men. That is, the female breasts, the womanhoodf, more roundness of the hips, greater roundness of the buttocks. B) Greater gracefulness and gracility, higher pitched voices, less physical strength, less muscle girth, softer hair, less body hair. Everything that gives the impression of more tenderness, fragility and softness. C) And, finally, a greater amount of normal fat layers necessary for healthy life, quite different ratio of fat-to-muscle in the medically normal body , and more roundness of the body, where men do not have it. (2). At the same time, human sexuality is generally characterized by a desire to enhance, strengthen and extrapolate qualities which are naturally attractive All three factors listed above can be synthesized in balance, and then the most preferred type is a Titian-Rubenesque woman, as has been the case for most of human history over the last three thousands years. By modern standards, this is bbw, but not on the verge of turning into sbbw. However, if some components of this complex are strengthened more than other ones, then shift in any direction can be obtained. If we increase gracility and fragility and a smaller volume of muscles (factor B), we will get a thin and slim woman. If, on the contrary, we increase the roundness and fat layers, that is, factor C, then we will get larger BBWs and SSBBWs. History shows that this tendency was naturally very widespread, and that it often begins to occupy a large or even dominant place in real preference spectrum and in culture, if living conditions allow it, or if this tendency is not suppressed artificially. Evolutionary mechanisms determine that male sexual preferences vary widely. This is optimal for survival and procreation because the more diverse men's sexual preferences are, the more different men will have lust for different women, and the more women will be involved in reproduction. This is simply human nature, determined by evolution. Therefore, in reality, naturally different men always show a wide range of sexual preferences from thin to ussbbw women, while an indefinite majority is naturally predisposed to prefer women with slight and average excess weight according to modern beliefs, but there are also admirers of thin women and admirers of very large women, and till we are on the ground of natural predispositions, there are even more of the latter than of the former ones. (3) And then cultural factors come into play. First of all, there is a great difference between repressive (restrictive) and hedonistic cultures. Hedonistic cultures, which are sympathetic and protective to human desire and lust, recognize the existence of different types of beauty preferences, and consider this fully normal. Of cource, one of this types may be considered the most popular, but this does not lead hedonistic cultures to stigmatize or condemn other preferences. Very characteristic in this sense is the Arab story frim 1001 Nights about a man from Yemen and six beautiful girls, where these girls vary in stature from thin with sharp knees to a huge obese one who is not able to reach her own womanhood. All these six types of females are recognized in text as extraordinary beauties, although one of them, somewhere in the middle (by our standards, she is bbw with folds on her sides and belly and with broad hips and buttocks), is stated as relatively the most popular. Nearly in the same way the Roman poet Martialus talks about three types of preferences - the preference of thin and the very thin girls, the preference of the largest girls up to the 1000 roman libra (730 lbs), and the preference of just curvy, full figured and fleshy women, which is his own preference. He calls those who share the second preference "pinguarii", which means fat lovers, while those who share the third preference are called "carnarii" which means meat or flesh lovers. From Pompeii paintings of women we well know what he meant, they are definitely bbws with broad and flabby hips and buttocks, but not of the heaviest bbw kind and not ssbbws. Martialus obviously favoritizes his own taste, but he well accepts and knows the fact, that other men have another tastes, and they are rather wide spread. Martialus jokes about these another tastes, but he doesn't condemn them and is not enraged by their existence. Repressive cultures, on the contrary, definitely enforce standardization. When faced with a real spectrum of preferences, they choose one of them, legitimize this one as a canon, and beginn to condemn, suppress, discredit and discriminate everything else. The western culture of the 20th century is one of the repressive cultures in the entire sphere of sexual preferences, and both thus culture and its modern continuation are trying to impose standardization (4) Further, some repressive cultures, in addition to standardization, also promote religions and ideologies hostile to sexualty, to the body and flesh, to the body pleasures and carnal desires. Such cultures naturally condemn fatness as a manifestation of pleasuring and spoiling one’s body, and, in addition, simply because there is more human flesh and it it exposed more in fat persons. Our modern culture is the heir of one of such body-unfriendly cultures and very much of modern approaches are reproduced by inertia from the past, even regardless of the influence of religion itself. (5). Further, the most important limiting or, conversely, encouraging factor is formed by living conditions and the neccessities dictated by them. The most common conceots of ​​beauty never includes things that are fully unattainable in real life under the living conditions of a given society. This means that if people are forced to live by constantly wandering and moving from place to place on foot, and to drag all their property with them on their hands and on their backs, then the type of very heavy women will not exist within their spectrum of widespread preferences, because such a woman cannot move with enough ease to walk around like that. It is only in narrow marges of the preferences spectrum where desire for very large women can survive in these circumstances. It will not be expressed in culture usually This is exactly how it was in many regions of the primeval world, although not in all ones, and this is exactly how it was in the African ancestral areal of humanity. Further, if all women are necessarily involved in long and laborious walking for the purpose of gathering, or in hard physical work to maintain the household, or simply in a constant high spending of calories, to maintain the household, then the type of very large obesity will also not be included into the inventory of wide-spread preferences, because such women simply will not exist in society, otherwise than a great exception. (6) Thus, the factors that can suppress the desire for great obesity throughout human history are as follows: - repressive standardization of preferences and of sexuality, - the dominance of ideology, hostile to body, lust, and bodily pleasures and satisfactions, - living conditions that require women to walk and move constantly and to expend large amounts of calories on activities necessary for survival. If all three of these factors do not operate, then human nature immediately begins to work freely and generates, among other types of preferences, the preference for very large women. The latter preference may even become the most popular, since the fatness refers to comfortable and carefree living conditions, to the absence of the hardships of physical labor and efforts, and to the abundance of pleasures from food. (7) As already mentioned, in the primeval homeland of mankind in Africa, the resources for hunting and gathering were such that people had to constantly move to acquire enough of them. In these conditions, the ideal of a curvaceous full bodied bbws, like the heavy modern South African girls participating in reed dances, dominated, but the preference for SSBBWs had no ground to develop most of the time. But later, in the mammoth steppes and adjacent areas, a completely unique situation arose, which persisted intermittently for about 30,000 years, from 40,00 to 10,000 years ago. There was a huge amount of so-called megafauna, that is, huge animals available for hunting to people of that time, much more than the fauna in their ancestral home in Africa. The human population was small, probably there were no more than 50,000 people throughout France and Spain, and there were enough recources for hunting for everyone, there was no need for continuous movement from place to place. Women in this situation did not need to move much while gathering, because the main products if foid were huge amounts of fatty meat, which was obtained by male hunters. The same hunters on the way back were often engaged in gathering, which could also be entrusted to older children and younger teenagers, as well as to able-bodied old people.

The culture was not repressive, it was hedonistic, it was favourable and positive towards food, sex and all bodily pleasures, and so it legitimized the most wide range of preferences (including, by the way, male and female bisrxualty and homosexuality; females identificating themselves as men and males identificating themselves as women were usually well known and quite normally accepted, see examples in Inuit culture, and many other far Northern primeval cultures). And this range was wide indeed, because among the figurines of this time there are figurines of women with thin bodies as well as figurines of hugely large ones, and figurines of averagely plump and larger, but still not huge women, too, that is, all these types of beauty and preferences were legitimized, it’s just that the greatest fatness seems be the most popular among them. As a result, it is during these times that the images of very obese women were produced, although in the same cultures there are also some images of thin and average women. E.g., a bunch of drawings from Cave Marche with commentary to them can be seen here https://www.deviantart.com/eightynineone/gallery/92456177/tribute-to-cave-marche It must be emphasized, is that there is not a single example of unrealistic image of fat woman of the time (as well as in Neolithic and Bronze Age). The fattest examples if Stone Ages are Venus of Willendorf, https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339444366/figure/fig4/AS:861904226492417@1582505389371/The-Venus-of-Willendorf-46-is-a-small-11-cm-figurine-carved-from-ooelitic.ppm and Romanian Venus, https://bbw-chan.link/.media/8361890afc891e8aba50502897087749bef775fb9c85468b2d0ea088752c2429.jpg Both of them are not larger than real ussbbws (even not with records of weight), cf. Isabella Jazmin.from Argentina at 30 years and c. 780 lbs, https://thumbs.web.sapo.io/?W=910&H=0&delay_optim=1&webp=1&epic=YTAysSH+jc+bdtc3P5OBji0znSqIf/g5SYqR3nwCLw8eM6Dx5+XYSlENt8i94BFVeF4msI3c274gDcREcjTL6ShmkrbeLXSPWCA7Bx++hRNB1bc= This fact is another proof, that the Venus figurines represent the real women, and are not creation of imagination, stimulated by symbolic of fertility or any other kind. They just were deoicting large and largest women who could be seen in real life. Be it a work of imagination, it will immediately lead them to such images as https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/i/5ed24882-c5d2-4b31-aff8-1a61468350f6/d87df1y-c8de4cd8-894f-4f76-9e7c-4f3289e3d626.png/v1/fill/w_700,h_349/immobile_fantasy_by_alhopf7777777_d87df1y-350t.png or https://64.media.tumblr.com/d705a9d6bd99f283f3e81cac4fde777a/tumblr_o43qu1fm9t1ua6yn3o1_500.jpg or https://img3.pillowfort.social/posts/99930ca8c408bb6e8faf.jpeg etc. We see miriads of such images in Devisnt Art. They depicted some fantastic creatures, so if they would give freedom to imagination while depicting women, they would well create images like these DA examples. But we have not a single example of such images in Stone Age. Not a single example giving bigger proportions than we see at real ussbbws of our real life. Moreover, several of real ussbbws are slightly bigger in proportions than any known Venus. Thus, they didnt exaggerate over the examples / records they witnessed IRL. They were interested in creating images of real women. Indeed, there are two images in Marche where the author "fattened" the woman, adding new contours to the finished figure, which new contours made her even fatter ( https://www.deviantart.com/eightynineone/art/1b-Sitting-Woman-tracing-of-contours-1059789789 , https://www.deviantart.com/eightynineone/art/4b-Standing-Beauty-contours-1060252542 ) . But even these additional contours dont make her unrealistically fat as it us made in those miriads of DA pics referred above. With the final end of the Ice age, i.e. with the warming and disappearance of megafauna, this era ended, and in times after 10,000 years ago, people were again forced to move long distances from day to day, because there was no longer enough game for them in one and the same area. And there were no carriages and wheels, ir domestic beasts except dogs. The only mean of transportation besides your own legs were sledges driven by dogs, and they were appliable only in several areas of the world. People spent a huge amount of calories while making necessary movements from place to place. Therefore, in the Mesolithic, the type of preference of ussbbws, ssbbws and larger bbws ceased to exist as cultural phenomenon; it was temporarily suppressed by external environmental conditions. (8) Yet, later, the same combination of conditions as had existed in megafauna times, appeared in some places at a new level. For example, agricultural and cattke-breeding economies require constant physical labor and high caloric expenditure for those who produce everything needed for life. But the wealthy people and the elite, who could keep servants that would save them from physical work, again found themselves in the same position as the wives of megafauna hunters once had been, and even in better position - now they may not do physical work at all, but consume as much food as you like. For pastoralists, this is available to even a greater extent than for farmers, because cattle breeding actually requires less investment of physical labor than farming. And so, for example, in the cultures of the Southern European Neolithic, including Malta, of Near Eastern Neolithic and partly Bronze Age, in the African Great Lakes region of the Middle Ages and modern times (where there were huge herds of cattle that produced countless amounts of milk), in medieval Egypt, where there were the highest harvests in the world at that time, etc. - in the wealthy or just prosperous stratas, the ideal of an exceptionally obese woman again becomes extremely popular. Among the Arabs, this ideal, along with other preferences, existed not only in oasis areaa and cities, but even in the the nomadic tribes of Arabia, that is, among pastoralists. For more information about this, see the article by Katz, https://journals.openedition.org/anisl/3059?lang=en By the way, Arabs had camels, the carrying capacity of which was more than enough to transport such women if necessary, not to say about simple carriages driving by muse, asses and oxen. The same was true in many other regions of the world. For example, very obese women were very popular among the nomadic Mongols, since they had carts in which these women could always be transported. In Western Europe of the Middle Ages, Christianity dominated, and this already suppressed the possibility of the emergence of ssbbw preferencing as an open or wide spread cultural phenomenon. Nevertheless this type of preference emerged again in crusaders state in the Near East.

(9) When Christianity was adopted rather superficially, the larger bbws and ssbbws preferencing could be widespread even in the lands with not very rich harvests. For example, in Russia in the 15th - 17th centuries, the optimal weight of a beautiful woman who could afford it, according to the most popular preferences variant then in circulation, was considered to be from 7 to 7.5+ poods, that is, from 250 to 270 pounds. The average height of a woman then was 152 cm (5 ft 1 inch), so this weight on her looked like the average modern woman (168-169 cm) weighing 335 - 365 pounds. This ideal was then shared equally by the people and the elites. Moreover, they were so widespread that the very word of Russian language which means "thin", "hudoy" in Russian has the literal meaning "bad, unconvenient". And the word meaning "to gain weight, "popravitsya" in Russian, means literally "to get yourself in the right condition, to make yourself better". (10) By the end of the 18th century, due to deteriorating of living conditions and increasing repressivenesx if culture, in Russia this standard dropped to a range of 5.5 - 6 pounds, 200 - 215 pounds for the same height, which with a modern average height would give a weight range of 270 -290 lbs. And in the 18th century Russia, this ideal was already shared only by wealthy peasants, merchants and the simplest nobles. According to the adopted European fashion, the elitary ideals were already different. By the end of the 19th century, this ideal was already shared onky by a minority of the population in Russia, primarily among the merchants and wealthy peasants, not to say of course about individual fat admirers, that exist in any time and any society. (11) In the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, throughout the developed world, the needs of the clothing industry began to have the strongest additional negative impact on the situation. Sewing clothes for a full figure not only requires more fabric consumption, but it also requires much more labor-intensive fitting work. The objective ideal for the clothing industry would be just a stick; its cover is the easiest to produce. Of course, mass production of clothing implies that standardization is desirable for the manufacturer, too. At the same time, the physical labour of working and housekeeping women still remained high. Thus, the 20th century turned out to be the time of greatest suppression of attraction to overweight and very overweight women. Now, at least in the United States, major changes are afoot. The culture has become somewhat less repressive and standardizing. But most importantly, for the first time in history, a huge mass of the population has the opportunity to receive a huge amount of high-calorie food, without spending a lot of calories on its production and on living. Water no longer needs to be carried from a well, cooking does not require kindling, vacuuming requires significantly fewer calories than hand cleaning, washing in a washing machine requires immeasurably less calories than hand washing. In this situation, a lot of people give themselves free rein, and the number of overweight and very overweight women becomes such that even a repressive culture is forced to take this into account and begins to retreat under the pressure of changing reality. This is what we are seeing in the United States, but we can talk about making the decisive pass only when, e.g., the Hollywood films show plump and very fat women as attractive, successful, sexy and beautiful characters. I think that this time is not far off.

Some indigenous still do the communal yuri fattening traditions

>>52517 Such as? Which tribes from which states do communal fattening of women?

I did hear of pacific islander groups that would do communal fattening for women like in Tahiti, and Samoa, any other cultures from the pacific islands that do this?

>>52517 >52549 Now recognizing you're from Canada, so I'll rephrase my question as which tribes in the US or Canada do this? Which groups from which states/Canadian provinces fatten up their women?

http://vivianlawry.com/fat-or-phat/

>>51025 really wondering if russian oligarchs secretly have obese wives they keep away from public eye. just kidding they probably have not

>>51025 thanks a lot for your input. much appreciated and please continue if you have more.

>>52570 Thank you! Now some people including me had created a team and contribute various info to the page https://www.deviantart.com/eightynineone There is no modern creations there, it is a storage for material which was found by us or sent to anyone of us by personal communications as pieces of folklore, literature or art of the past (the page owner adds sometimes illustrations made in XXth century). No one can garantee the authencity of all which was sent to us by private communications, still. But whenever we can or have a right to give a concrete source or provenance, the page owner gives it. You should be surprised, how many academicians, museum workers etc. are ready to share unpublished or forgotten (or given only in rare publications on Non-European languages) material on ssbbws on the terms of anonymity amd without naming a comcrete collection or institute holding Usually, no one wants to be known among his colleagues as "that crazy promoter of fat gals", you can be known to have such wife or gf or porn collection amd its fully ok, its your personal job. but let God protect you from beeing witnessed as one who praises fat beauties in public sphere. I am an archeologist, and I'd never dare to give my name, because I want to work quietly in my field amd I cannot change the situation

>>52665 Idk man, half of this looks like jank AI bs...

>>52665 >You should be surprised, how many academicians, museum workers etc. are ready to share unpublished or forgotten (or given only in rare publications on Non-European languages) material on ssbbws on the terms of anonymity amd without naming a comcrete collection or institute holding As an Anglophone academic historian, I'm torn between wanting to believe and rolling my eyes at the obvious AI gens

me like big woman, me stare, me give rock to her

>>52729 I am not a specialist in ai, so I have no any valid opinion on this point. .i have checked now ai board here , at bbw chan, and i googled words ai ssbbw pic. I have not found anything like tha"t Indian " or Ai stuff, but it isn't a proof, because I have no info on what one can do with Ai. The fact that didn't see any AI image like those images doesn't mean that they are not AI. Being only an archaeologist with interest to folklore, I can elaborate any valid opinion only on archaeological and folklore material. Marche pics of humans were very well published in 1976, and though there are rare voices supposing that some of them are fakes, the great majority of archaeologists take them as true, and the arguments for their non-authenticity seem to me disastrously weak, such as idea that one elephant-like figure resembles not a mammuth , but an elephant, while, it is said, no elephants lived there in these times. I checked this image, it resembles a mammuth as well as any other elephant like creature, and what is more important, it was well proved that real elephants existed on various territories of southwestern Europe till Bronze Age. The Beringian stuff was partly published and partly can be seen in local museums and collections , it's okay with it. Erotic folklore tales about fat women are partly published, some items I've heard personally just from the people. As for me, I like other images on this page but I never would dare to stay that they are not Ai or not handmade works of artists of nowadays. They were sent to us as reproductions of real images from the recent past, but the senders could be mystified or could try to mystify us.

>>52733 >They were sent to us as reproductions of real images from the recent past, but the senders could be mystified or could try to mystify us. Except for the archaeological tracings, which I don't have the expertise to evaluate, most of the images on your DA are obvious AI creations. This should be immediately obvious -- even by current AI standards this is mediocre output. I'm pretty sure you know this and that I'm the one getting trolled (or "mystified") here, but because I'd love to see more genuine scholarly work on this topic and would love an actual curated archive of authentic premodern BBW material, I'll do some deboonking to correct the record. For starters, the janky hands and feet are an obvious AI tell. Woman on the left has eight toes on one of her feet, woman on the right has six. Likewise, the eyes of the woman on the right are pointing in opposite directions. Look at how the right breast of the woman on the left has a gold smear that continues across her arm. The AI isn't sure from her posture whether it's supposed to draw a protruding nipple or shade the fold of her elbow, so it connects the two in a single line that makes no representational sense. Now compare this to an actual classical Persian miniature. First obvious mistake is that the gold-on-green text across the top is imitating Arabic script, but the actual letters don't line up or make any sort of cohesive letter shapes. The AI knows that by the conventions of Islamic art there "should" be text there, compare the black-on-tan portions of the actual artwork. But it's not actual script, just a bunch of squiggles. and even if it were real letters, the text would probably be gibberish. (Try playing around with DALL-E and getting it to generate text in your native language to get a feel for how this works.) Now look at the ground where the women are standing. In the actual painting, you can see several different distinct flower motifs, in patterns which repeat symmetrically with subtle variations. The vines above the guy's head are realistic (if stylized) plant shapes, with each individual vine branching a couple of times and each leaf clearly connected to a particular vine and angled correctly. In the AI image, meanwhile, the ground has vaguely recognizable plant shapes in it, but they're not in any sort of arrangement and they don't add up to a representation of any actual object, just a bunch of blotches that sort of look like stylized flower shapes if you relax your focus. As I scroll down the image to write this pedantic sperg post, I notice that the bottom layer of the AI image (squared-off blue and yellow) is also a garbled attempt at representing Arabic, in this case, the square Kufic script as opposed to the flowing Nastaliq calligraphy. But not only is it not real text, it's not even symmetrical, it's a bunch of sloppy vertical lines of uneven width. Absolutely haram. Actual Kufic script looks kind of like a QR code and is used in mosaics with square tiles, pic related. tl;dr somebody got taken on a ruse cruise and I don't know if it was you or me

I am rather convinced (and its not "my dear cause" in any case) but it must be noted that no one told to anyone that these items are oriental miniatures. I myself checked oriental artful miniatures from Turkey to Mughal tradition and I never think, that they have any relation to items we discuss, and nobody proposed to,us such idea. It was told that they are cheap stamps or drawings , redrawn and copied one from another by illiterate and not at all skillful and thorough people, just as egyptian souvenir papyri, which are produced handfully or with stamping in Egypt now and are of a very bad quality. No one takes care , while producing such stuff , for accuracy of figures or toes, accuracy of color or reality of " hieroglyphs", drawn on these papyri. If there is a normal source for copying, the signs are realistic, if not , the signs can be a garbage. illiterate cheap producers of this kind of stuff would have never tried to reproduce any real writing. Once more, I am very far from any attempt to say they are NOT AI creations. I myself will be happy if they are, and if somebody names me the corresponding AI tool or program. I will know what to do with it! - not of cource in order to propose my works with such AI tools as reproductions of some old pieces, but to have as much pieces of the kind as i want, and to be able to determine their details and plots The only reason for my questions is that I never saw anything alike these items from any AI. If anyone would tell me how i can receive such pieces from this or that AI, i will be more than grateful and i think that it will be not only me who will be very grateful. I will not drop a single tear if it will be neccessary to rename the corresponding gallery as " AI stylisations of imaginated cheap Indian pieces with fat women". I will be glad to hear it.

>>52837 No. I don’t see it that way.

>>52837 >It was told that they are cheap stamps or drawings, redrawn and copied one from another by illiterate and not at all skillful and thorough people No, someone is hoaxing you. Even beyond the obvious tells of AI generation (the arm fold in particular is a standard AI mistake), this is clearly a piece of digital art, not a scan of an actual object. If they're not willing to give citations, I'd be very skeptical. I work in an academic library, and I find it hard to believe that a serious scholar wouldn't at least share a citation or catalog record entry. If I wanted to stay anonymous, I'd just contact you with a burner email account and not identify myself. I can only suggest Anglophone AI tools, but DALL-E 2 via Bing is the most accessible free AI image generator. I can't post a URL because it triggers the autoban, but search "Bing Create." I strongly recommend that you spend some time experimenting with it. Once you get a "feel" for what AI-generated art looks like, it becomes easy to recognize. The technology has been improving dramatically over the past few years, but it's not at a point yet where it can be truly indistinguishable from human art.

Glad this thread is still up cause I came across these this morning, while looking something up that was totally unrelated. The Tlatico culture were active in mexico between 1250 bc and 800 bc and they're largely known for figurines they made. Whats interesting is most of the other ones are completely normal sized, but a few of them look like they had lipedema.

>>32406 They stuff themselves with Chankonabe, a specific dish made for bulking up while they spend most of their time doing intense exercise regimens. They're basically bodybuilders in all but name.

>>52890 This is exactly why I hate AI shit, it exists to do nothing but make actual information significantly harder to find.

>>53372 Also interesting that this is very much not the body type of most indigenous Mexicans I've seen (as opposed to Meztizos, who have European and sometimes African heritage). The one on the right looks a lot like African sculpture I've seen.

https://x.com/Paracelsus1092/status/1852992149681283439 Link to interesting twitter thread on the topic

I'm pretty sure I've posted this here before but I think it bears a repost now that folks are contributing again. Not exactly "academic" but interesting. I OCR'd it from the book Apocalypse Culture, by Adam Parfrey.

Came across this video, which is definitely related. It sort of argues that there maybe some pretty ancient evolutionary incentives for feederism. https://youtube.com/shorts/OPHoOAe-Eyc?si=_N8z6yBdk72bYk6d

>>56490 Earlier in the thread is an interesting discussion about how Stone Age women ate and the possibility of SSBBWs in that period. Some of the commenters actually seemed to know what they were talking about, for a change.

>>4623 https://youtube.com/shorts/OPHoOAe-Eyc?si=lHN0IQ5IwJTTQmRH

>>56582 Hi yes hello I am the double link posting crossfaded retard

>>56582 https://youtu.be/YTn5KdsxZ0E I've reached this video, that is the complete of the one you posted, he goes and goes about "hur durr, its a goddess and the statue is pregnant, hur durr", but sometimes he realizes that these women are just fat, but he can't accept that this culture could only like fat women.

Enjoyed reading through this thread. There definitely were parts of history where obesity was a sign of status and wealth particularly in Europe.

>>4623 I’m inclined to agree that this statue might represent something more culturally unique than we usually consider. The idea of a Neolithic feeder society is wild, but it makes a lot of sense if you think about it. Maintaining that kind of body mass in a time when food was hard-won and resources were finite would require a collective effort....a society that deliberately prioritized and celebrated such a figure. If we assume this individual was held in high esteem, perhaps their size symbolized abundance or communal success. A group effort to keep someone well-fed and sedentary could reflect a status-driven dynamic, where her very body became a living, breathing representation of prosperity. The "elderly woman of high status" theory is plausible too, but it feels a little reductive... like it brushes over the cultural implications of feeding as an intentional act. If this was a deliberate practice, was it tied to spiritual beliefs, aesthetic admiration, or even proto-social hierarchies? Did they view her size as a divine marker or a goalpost of their collective strength?

>>57981 Somewhere in this thread is a surprisingly informed debate as to whether food scarcity was actually a given during neolithic times. I'm sure it was in some tribes/societies, as throughout history, but research indicates it wasn't universal, at all.

Interesting!

>>52549 I think some pacific NW coastal groups still do grease feasts with salmon similar to older potlatch customs. The intention is to flaunt wealth/excess and gorge on fish grease until you are shiny and fat.